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Indeed...let me make it clear...that the compressor is sweet.  It is well above some of the stuff I ahve been using.  Just wanted to know the info behind the contouring.  Here is what the help file says:

Program-dependent release contour

Release contour has a relative scale - its form and steepness are most important.  The steeper the contour is the less program dependence is exhibited by the compressor (the actual release time may become faster as well).  Almost horizontal contour may produce a prolonged compression release time and thus a smoother sound.

Ok cool, makes sense.

You may adjust the release contour by adjusting three parameter knobs.  Absolute values of these knobs do not have any conventional meaning.

...but.....but.


guys, I'm sorry but I believe that Elvenking is asking an important question here.  Please let's talk about the answer and not get angry at each other :)

Suppose these 3 knob values are constants A, B, C

According to how Aleksey described it...

Release Contour = A + B + C

The description I am referring to is this one btw...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creator: Aleksey Vaneev

Quote Date: Nov 4, 2005, 9:40am

Jan, yes, the same (dependency on the envelope of the audio signal) happens in Marquis.

3 parameters = 3 multipliers, for more flexibility.  For example: 3.0, 1.0, 3.0 is the same as 3.0, 3.0, 1.0 and 1.0, 3.0, 3.0.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what Elvenking is saying is, why isn't there 1 knob that does this ?  Why do we have 3 knobs ?  I asked the same question a few pages back too actually :D

bManic, I respect your opinion and your ears mate.  I'm simply going by exactly how Aleksey described the function of these 3 knobs.  You see, with Aleksey's description, the fact should actually be that there is no difference between the 2 samples.

Let me elaborate, so let's say we have 3 knobs each with the range [0.1, 10] for example.  If their sum is used to provide the release time, then a single knob with the range [0.3, 30] should mathematically provide the same results.

If the release contour is in fact, NOT the sum of the 3 knobs, then can you please explain to us, exactly how each of the 3 knbos affect the release contour ?  I mean, if I set the knobs to 1, 2, 2 and then set them to 2, 1, 2 ...  I personally see an identical graph and hear identical release contour characteristics.  If these 3 knobs really do provide different parameters, could you please go into detail and explain how they are used ?

Thanks a lot, let's not argue anymore please, it's pointless.  We just need to discuss the difference between these three knobs so that we know how to use this great compressor to the very best of its abilities.

Be Happy ! :D

Fots

P.S.: This is one of the best compressors i've ever heard ! which is why i'm so interested in this.  Keep up the great work Aleksey ! :D


Hi people

well , I thought Alexseys' explanation was obvious.

Analogy : imagine you have 3 band eq where each band is set to

notch so only variable is frequency.  If you set first band to 1k and

second to 3k, result would be the same as if you set first band to

3k and second to 1k.  And you couldnt have just one knob to

control all bands, no?

cheerz

urosh


This would be the case, if the knobs actually do something different.  From what i can tell, they all perform the same function.  So my question remains.

urosh: Hi people

urosh: well , I thought Alexseys' explanation was obvious.

urosh: Analogy : imagine you have 3 band eq where each band is set to

urosh: notch so only variable is frequency.  If you set first band to 1k and

urosh: second to 3k, result would be the same as if you set first band to

urosh: 3k and second to 1k.  And you couldnt have just one knob to

urosh: control all bands, no?

urosh: cheerz

urosh: urosh


urosh thanks a lot for your response on this one :D

However, my thoughts on this are similar to Elvenking, so I'm also still curious to hear more about it.  It really does appear that the 3 knobs are controlling 1 thing.  So for instance, here's my analogy of how I see this..

We have an EQ with 3 bands, but the frequency & Q value of all bands are identical and can not be modified.

Lets say

Band 1 - 3 = at 10 kHZ, Q = 0.5

Each band allows you to boost in the range of [0, 10] db.  So why not have a single band instead which could allow a boost range of [0, 30] ?  This should actually be identical, should it not ?

Cheerios

Fots


Elvenking: I merely want the question dodging to stop.  And the answers to start.  Sorry for any frustrations in the translation.  But hey, three pages...and no solid answer.

How many times do people have to tell you the answer?  I've already said it many times so I will do one last try (sorry if the following text seems rude but I want to make it absolutely sure you understand what I say and that you know I'm not saying stuff out of ignorance but rather trough hearing it, ABX validated):

0.1, 10, 10 is not sounding the same as 10, 10, 0.1.  You can clearly hear this in the clips that I posted.  Listen and compare the release behaviour of the two clips.  The cymbals 'pump & breathe' differently in the clips.  Want scientific 'proof'?  Phase reverse one of the clips and summ them in a wave editor, you will have the difference.

Either A) you lack experience, B) have a bad monitoring system, C) you don't even want to understand what is being told to you

Which one is it?  Truly, this is not about any pissing contest but rather answering your question but how do you show a blind man that the wall is painted yellow?

Bottom line: the release parameters set to X, Y, Z does NOT equal them set to Z,Y,X or Y,Z,X and this is audible , more or less so depending on the source material

I can't state it more clear than this.  Now if Aleksey isn't too bored he will provide the exact equation or something.

- bManic


fgimian: bManic, I respect your opinion and your ears mate.  I'm simply going by exactly how Aleksey described the function of these 3 knobs.  You see, with Aleksey's description, the fact should actually be that there is no difference between the 2 samples.

That's cool, but he is wrong then.  I trust my ears explicitly and in this case it's not even very difficult to hear the difference (the sonalksis debate was much harder to convince people and very few believed me until the developers themselves confirmed it).

Just summ the clips, one phase reversed and it will even be quite clear in what way the knobs work.  The clue lies within the cymbals of those two clips.

- bManic


thanks bManic, i'll do the inverse phase test tonight too :D I must admit that I too had noticed the Sonalksis point you mentioned, Sonalksis Compression is extremely sophisticated and I remember noticing a difference too so I ran a sine wave sweep on it with default settings and immediately saw a huge affect on frequency response :D

Back to the Marquis ... any tips on how to setup these 3 knobs (with regards to the differences that are heard) ? i.e. in what way do you believe that each knob affects the sound roughly ?

Thanks a lot

Fots


Ok, first of all, I went ahead and got this compressor after try the demo for 15 minutes.  It's a beauty.

I do share the same puzzlement over the three parameter knobs.  I would be quite helpful to have some hints as to why I might put a higher value in #1 v. #2 or #3; also, if I was going for certain sound, say soft release versus pump, would I tweak one knob more than another.

I think this would be very helpful.  Thanks.


As I have already described, these three knobs are not used as a SUM nor a MULTIPLY.  These are ***FILTERS***.  Indeed, by design 10,10,0.1 is THE SAME as 0.1,10,10.  So, both these settings produce the same release curve display.  However, in implementation they do produce different results.  But don't be caught by these differences since they are mostly subtle.

What I'm trying to say is that these three knobs resemble A SYSTEM.  You can't substitute three params for one only.  These knobs are uniform in their operation, but together THEY ARE SYSTEM.

I'm not sure how can I describe this better.

This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.