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Elvenking: Ok, I am glad you can hear the difference. (Twilight Zone Theme Plays Here)

Elvenking: Ok...please describe the difference in the function between the Param 1, Param 2, and Param 3 knobs.

Elvenking: There is no answer to this here.  I understand that you are a fan of the Voxengo pulgin.  Wonderful.  I bet if I was to blind test you on those two waves....you would not know the difference.  Not a doubt in my mind.

Elvenking: I never said that the release contour did nothing...I am saying one knob would be as good as three.  That is...if the graph has anything to do with th release behaviour at all.

Elvenking: Get a clue, and a pair of ears would help too.  Look, even my girlfriend hears the difference in those two clips.  It's not THAT subtle.  I assume you are rather new to audio recording/mixing?  It takes a bit of practise to learn how dynamics sounds (and it helps having a good pair of monitors too, you can't do proper evaluation on headphones).

We've all been trying to explain to you that 1 knob can not, and will never, be able to do what these 3 do together.  How hard is it for you to understand this??  The audio clips clearly show there is a difference, now go and practise your hearing skills.

- bManic


Ohh gawd, this is just too much.  No one can just give an answer as to the difference between the function of the knobs.  Still...all these pages...and still no answer.  But this was said by someone at Voxengo:

Creator: Aleksey Vaneev

Quote Date: Nov 4, 2005, 9:40am

Jan, yes, the same (dependency on the envelope of the audio signal) happens in Marquis.

3 parameters = 3 multipliers, for more flexibility.  For example: 3.0, 1.0, 3.0 is the same as 3.0, 3.0, 1.0 and 1.0, 3.0, 3.0.

How many times can I say it.....he says IT IS THE SAME!!!!  SO explain to me...what each knob does.  If they perform different functions,....and you are so damned brilliant...you can explain that.

And its nice to know that you have an active imagination when it comes to listening to those two waves.  And that you can hear things that no normal person will ever hear.  And that you can become creative when confronted with the fact that there is no audiable difference between them.

Oh and by the way...your girlfriend is gonna always tell you what you wanna hear.

Elvenking: Ok, I am glad you can hear the difference. (Twilight Zone Theme Plays Here)

Elvenking: Ok...please describe the difference in the function between the Param 1, Param 2, and Param 3 knobs.

Elvenking: There is no answer to this here.  I understand that you are a fan of the Voxengo pulgin.  Wonderful.  I bet if I was to blind test you on those two waves....you would not know the difference.  Not a doubt in my mind.

Elvenking: I never said that the release contour did nothing...I am saying one knob would be as good as three.  That is...if the graph has anything to do with th release behaviour at all.

bmanic: Elvenking: Get a clue, and a pair of ears would help too.  Look, even my girlfriend hears the difference in those two clips.  It's not THAT subtle.  I assume you are rather new to audio recording/mixing?  It takes a bit of practise to learn how dynamics sounds (and it helps having a good pair of monitors too, you can't do proper evaluation on headphones).

bmanic: We've all been trying to explain to you that 1 knob can not, and will never, be able to do what these 3 do together.  How hard is it for you to understand this??  The audio clips clearly show there is a difference, now go and practise your hearing skills.

bmanic: - bManic


Elvenking: The feature does not bother me, in fact it seems like a good feature.  However, the fact that there are three knobs that essentially add up to what one knob could do....is beyond me.

dbmusic: Not bothered?  You're ranting about knobs!

dbmusic: Though I still don't get the point of this feature, I do have high regard for the developer.  If Aleksey wants to use 10 knobs I'm sure he would have a reason.  Doesn't mean we all have to find them useful.  Personally, I could do without them.  But your cynicism does not feel the least bit constructive.

dbmusic: db

Ok, given this.  If there is a reason for them, I simply want to hear the explanation for it.  If you read over the posts on this page, you will find that nothing he has said makes much sense at all...is contradictory, and is certainly not explained.  It is the most classic case of question dodging that I have seen.  All of this can be avoided by simply answering the question.  Explain the difference between the 3 Parameters, and I will be cool with that.  Or tell me that they simply compliment each other additively.

All this stuff about taking the pepsi challenge on two waves that obviously sound the same is silly.  The thing I have found, is if someone is saying that they can only hear something on their monitors...is that they are hearing things that are not there.  Because if that is the case....then what is the real difference.  It also prevents me from ever hearing the difference, and absolves him of ever requiring proof.  I have taken, as an experiment, two waves that have sounded pricely the same (I know, because I just changed the name of the file) and put them up for someone to listen to.  Explained some imaginary reason for a possible difference between the two, and have had someone tell me that they could hear the difference.  People do this all the time.


Look, you would get an explanation from Aleksey, like he said, IF you're attitude was a bit different and not jumping to conclusions all the time.  It wouldn't hurt if you gave my example a serious listen too, it really DOES reveal WHY a one knob solution wouldn't do it.

Btw. for some ear practise try this:

Get the sonalksis EQ demo, insert the eq on a track, don't touch any controls, just insert it on a track.  Do you hear a difference (hint: you should, as there is one)?  That's what I would call 'advanced' level training.

'Mediocre' level training would be inserting Voxengo Warmifier on a track with it's default settings.  Do you hear a difference?

'Easy' level training would be inserting Voxengo Tapebus on a track, with it's default settings.  Do you hear a difference?

I'd rate the marquis release controls in the 'mediocre' or 'easy' level as they really do produce rather different results (very much depending on what material you feed it!!).

- bManic


Am I really asking for too much.  Ok...maybe we got started off on the wrong foot.  I have listened to the waves at least 20 times now.  I tell you, I do not hear the difference.  I am not afraid to admit it.  This is not an amazing thing.  There are too many reaons for why that may be, and i don;t want to get into a pissing match to figure out if there is really a difference or not.

All that aside.  I simply want to know the logic.

I am a designer, I have the parameters.  The first varies this attribute...the second does this....and the thrid does this.

I do not mean to get so frustrated, but when you ask a question, no matter how complicated the answer, anything short of it....just does not make too much sense.

Now if someone would kindly enlighten me...that would be great.

bmanic: Look, you would get an explanation from Aleksey, like he said, IF you're attitude was a bit different and not jumping to conclusions all the time.  It wouldn't hurt if you gave my example a serious listen too, it really DOES reveal WHY a one knob solution wouldn't do it.

bmanic: - bManic


About hearing the difference.  I can hear the effect that the Release Contour has on the signal.  I hope you didn't think that was the case.  When i am tweaking the contour controls....I can surely hear a difference.  However, graphicaly....and audiably....I do not hear the difference between setting the controls at say 1,3,3 and 3,3,1.  This may be because, graphically...in the representation of the coutour....the curve looks exactly the same.  Who knows?  But I do know that one answer will do:

Param1 = ?

Param2 = ?

Param3 = ?

If it were outlines in the help...I would not even be here.  Instead...the answer seems to be ever ellusive.

Did you know that part of the ability to hear music the way we do, comes from our minds ability to create an image of sorts from it.  It does not stop there.  Say after a few hours of mixing, you may not be as in tune as you were before.  More often than not, the mixer, and the masterer are two different people, and for this very reason.  Even people with the best ears will hear different things about a simple passage of music.  Often, people will hear things that aren't there as well.  I am not willing to say which is the case with the two waves that are posted anymore.  It has already proven to be subjective.  If you are hearing the difference between the release on those, I believe you.  But I am unwilling to just turn the knobs until something sounds good.  I want to know what I am changing.  I just want to eliminate any confusion there....by figuring out the facts on these controls.

bmanic: Look, you would get an explanation from Aleksey, like he said, IF you're attitude was a bit different and not jumping to conclusions all the time.  It wouldn't hurt if you gave my example a serious listen too, it really DOES reveal WHY a one knob solution wouldn't do it.

bmanic: Btw. for some ear practise try this:

bmanic: Get the sonalksis EQ demo, insert the eq on a track, don't touch any controls, just insert it on a track.  Do you hear a difference (hint: you should, as there is one)?  That's what I would call 'advanced' level training.

bmanic: 'Mediocre' level training would be inserting Voxengo Warmifier on a track with it's default settings.  Do you hear a difference?

bmanic: 'Easy' level training would be inserting Voxengo Tapebus on a track, with it's default settings.  Do you hear a difference?

bmanic: I'd rate the marquis release controls in the 'mediocre' or 'easy' level as they really do produce rather different results (very much depending on what material you feed it!!).

bmanic: - bManic


Elvenking,

What you may or may not realize is that the attitude suggests that you don't want a explanation but only to cause trouble and that your probably not even seriouse about the product at all.Just because something does'nt work to your likeings does'nt give you the right to be disrespectfull.In the end weather your right or wrong in your opinion about the plugin will no longer be the subject of focus but your attitude will be!It's hard to give you a reasonable answer when your being unreasonable.Your anger is not just for this particular matter, and judging by what you wrote on the Sonar forum i'm quite certain you did not come here for answers but merely looking for trouble.But i'm hopeing you prove me wrong and cool it down a notch!  You don't have to agree with AV in the end, but let's keep these communities freindly!


I merely want the question dodging to stop.  And the answers to start.  Sorry for any frustrations in the translation.  But hey, three pages...and no solid answer.

sounddesigner: Elvenking,

sounddesigner: What you may or may not realize is that the attitude suggests that you don't want a explanation but only to cause trouble and that your probably not even seriouse about the product at all.Just because something does'nt work to your likeings does'nt give you the right to be disrespectfull.In the end weather your right or wrong in your opinion about the plugin will no longer be the subject of focus but your attitude will be!It's hard to give you a reasonable answer when your being unreasonable.Your anger is not just for this particular matter, and judging by what you wrote on the Sonar forum i'm quite certain you did not come here for answers but merely looking for trouble.But i'm hopeing you prove me wrong and cool it down a notch!  You don't have to agree with AV in the end, but let's keep these communities freindly!


I've tried the Marquis, and I too found it difficult to grasp.  And I recognize the problems from some earlier Voxengo plugins.

I've been into music for years and years, both playing and producing for local bands.  I've seen my fair share of both analog, digital and vst.  I do like to tweak, but I am more than aware of the short "attention span" of my ears, so I generally prefer to overtweak just to gauge the tool and the switch back to details..

The thing with Voxengo - as I see it - is that there is often an abundance of options in the plugs, and many of them produce only minimal variations.  It took me some time to get into Warmifier, but man am I glad I cracked it! (not cRaKced..). but other - like Elephant, or on a bad day even Crunchessor - doesn't make it worthwhile for me.  I do not doubt for one second that they're thoroughly worked over and tested etc.. but it's so gratifying to just turn two big knobs and then you're there.  You're there to at least 90% and it took you ten seconds.  And if you were having a bad day with a really good plug (Elephant/HarmoniEQ) you might not even get to 70%!  Man I'm meandering....  So, Voxengo = Tweaker's Delight.  Or?

So when it comes to the three knobs christened "param 1-3", well. they do some pretty subtle stuff.  And I haven't got the stamina or relentless ears to listen myself to results every time I mix something.  So I agree - on that behalf - with Elvenking when asking: How do the three knobs work specifically?  How do they differ from each other?

Some have suggested to just leave them be.  I'm not sure that is possible, since I'm not sure at what (relative?) settings they're letting the PD stuff through the most..  And there's no way of turning them off completely, is there?

I listened to the different examples, and imagined a difference.  Then I did some calculations, and they did really differ.  But I'm still not sure in what way - i.e. which should be used on what material?  And What's musical and what's purely technical?  And I think we need more examples, since just two of them does not discriminate the TIME of the release.  These two could easily be mistaken for just different release times.  Or am I wrong?

Moreover a quote from dbmusic: " If Aleksey wants to use 10 knobs I'm sure he would have a reason.  Doesn't mean we all have to find them useful.  Personally, I could do without them."

10 knobs.  I agree.  But I would prefer them to be adequately explained, for the people without the Genelecs.

..useful.  I agree.  Not every thing needs to be tweaked.  Although fun..

without them.  There again.. is it possible.  How would that affect the ProgDep..?

Man, sorry for the long piece.  I just felt like writing..

... again, Vintage Modulator, HarmoniEQ and Warmifier are truly kings among plugins!  Keep up the good work A.


Suggestion : in the next release make a switch that enables all 3 knobs.  But by default leave one knob.  If that's possible i think people would stop complaining...

Either way, i LOVE the T3/Clean/Classic mode.  I sent some drums and bass allready compressed to to a bus with marquis and it sounded HUGE and clean.  Beautifull comrpessor.

This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.