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hi,

something which would be really useful to me is a peak reading that showed how much headroom before peak reduction takes place. maybe a minus reading to the current 'P-red' meter?

thanks,

will.


You may use PRMS value for headroom evaluation.

hi,

i dont understand. the manual says 'prms' means peak rms output, what i am suggesting is basically just a simple input level reading. im also assuming that when the limiter looks ahead and sees nothing above 0db it has no action on the signal, so the input reading would also tell me how much headroom till limiting occours?

regards,


Peak signal value does not estimate headroom in a good way.  However, peak RMS does estimate it well.  It really shows how much headroom the track has and how much more can you compress it.  PRMS around -6 dBFS means track can't be compressed anymore while lower values clearly show that some headroom is available.  Difference between RMS and PRMS estimate dynamic range of the recording and can be also used to decide if you can compress track more or not.

ah, ok aleksey. i think my meaning of headroom is maybe out of context here, or maybe im just misunderstanding you (sorry if i am). i dont mean 'headroom' in terms of how much more compression can be applied, i mean simply when you look at the master fader in your daw and see how far the peaks are off 0dbfs.

tbh im not interested in using meters to judge compression, id rather use my ears and 'alt' + in gain, since even the dynamic loss after 3-4db of peak reduction is anoying to me.

my use for the peak input gain meter would be for some pre-master mixes, when i dont really want any peak reduction on the main body of the music but just the occasional peaks, so it would be useful to see in the louder sections how close i am to limiting talking place, if you see what i mean.

regards,

will.

ps. any more thoughts on a 'soft' control for the clip mode? are you still considering such an option? maybe i could send you some very punchy dance music with various different peak reduction methods and demonstrate what people like me like least as the compromise to loudness?


With my 'PRMS' suggestion I also wanted to give you an idea that instanteous signal peak reading hardly means anything in audio.  So, I'm not even interested in having such readout - it will simply consume screen space without offering any good signal level guideline.

'Soft' control is a planned feature and I already have an approach to implement it (with additional controls like assymetry and phase), but at the moment I'm doing some large-scale re-development of software development tools I use to create plug-ins: that's why I can't implement this control right now.


ok. i'll play and investigate prms some more.

glad you're still considering the soft control, and looks like you've got some more of your usual innovation to add. excellent!

thanks for you're patience, and usual great support!

will.


hi aleskey,

ive been playing with prms today. seems like an excellent useful feature! i see what you mean by the difference between prms and rms corresponding to percieved dynamics, and it can make it easier to quantify the percieved dynamic loss from compression.

it seems most useful with before/after evaluation of the same track or in comparison to similar tracks, since obviously bpm changes rms readings considerably. it seems that around hiphop tempo i like rms differences of 7-8db and at faster tempo (170bpm) more like 3.5-5db. its really interesting to be able to quantify the perceived dynamic effect within genres with what i hear for the first time! but i expect as with any reading there are simply too many factors to ever take it as seriously as your ears.

i have found the hottest commercial stuff i know can reach -2db prms! but its badly clipped and extremely distorted. about -6 to -7db is the loudest id currently consider limiting/clipping my music, which equates to about 4-5db peak reduction.

so why isnt there a prms/rms difference meter? also i think some of this info should be in the manual, or maybe i missed it?

thanks,

will.


I guess you've understood this 'PRMS minus RMS' difference well.  I'm planning to implement a clear readout for it in some future Elephant version.  User's manual will be updated as well.

I think this is basically what the "Crest Factor" is used for.

Would be nice to have a readout of that.

For metering, I like the one of the marquie compressor, which is unfortunately hard to use without compressor interaction at all , only for it´s optical function.

Also UAD´s Precision Limiter or Sonalksis FreeG have nice optics of their metering.

That´s the only point, where elephant is a little bit more uncomfortable.  But regarding sound it´s definatley the limiter I like most ( especially at this sound/price ratio).

This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.

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