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Forums     Plugins     Elephant Voxengo chain vs. TCE Finalizer

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Sounds like those Behringers can be a good choice...  I'm a little hesitant to get some expensive speakers as they can be too revealing and may show a great difference where it is--for most users--small.

Remeber that subtleties add up.  Does warmifier sound subtle?  Yes it does, when used on a single track.  Does it add up over 20 tracks?  Yes.  IMO you really need a good pair of monitors to enhance the ear and perfect the craft of mixing/mastering/recording and in your case coding quality plugins.  Remeber that a lot of serious professionals and very enthusiastic home recording engineers like myself DO have the equipment to hear even slight differences.  Don't underestimate your self nor your userbase.  It is NOT a fluke that you've gotten some serious attention on the UAD forum, Gearslutz and numerous other "pro" forums around the net.

As for monitors, I can HIGHLY recommend the new genelec line but that will of course set you back some serious cash (paid 920 euros for my 8030a's but worth every penny and they go down to 50hz so no real need for subwoofer either).

I've never heard Genelec, but the word on the street is that they are pretty specialist, they separate frequency bands noticably, which is okay if that's what you want.

I'm not trying to say one set is better than the other, that is just what I have heard, so it's a matter of taste.

Any type of saturation effect is almost invisible on regular speakers, until the effect adds up as bmanic said.  But that is hard to pull off unless you can hear those subtleties.

Before I got my monitors, I was mixing with desktop speakers and walkman headphones (cheap, but not the very cheepest).  I'd get a mix sounding good, then try it on some other system and it all went to pieces.

Now, with my monitors (and a little practice) I get a good mix in a short time and then I switch over to check with those same speakers and headphones and every time the result sounds spot-on.  Of course I am using the CurveEQ spectrum and SPAN to get a nice flat responce too.

As for genelecs.  Make sure never to get any of the old models 103x or 1029 series as they are really not up to the modern standard any more (afterall they were designed over 14 years ago!!).  The new 80xx series is far superior and definately fight for the 'best monitor under 2k$' series.



OK, thank you for your suggestion.  I'll be keeping it on my mind when I make my decision.

Actually the 1030a genelecs are very good.  And I don't think 'designed over 14 years ago' means much.  The end-all lexicon reverb has been just that for over 20 years.  Analogue equipment thats as old or even older is nowadays being modeled on DSP cards (see 1176, fairchild etc.) - because they sound great.

Also it doesn't matter how old a company is to make their gear good or bad.  Furthermore, the finalizer is a piece of software in a box, as is the access virus, the novation k-station, and the eventide SP2016.

But back to the monitoring discussion..  I personally would in addition to good monitors (for which I'd consciously recommend genelec 1030a or mackie HR824) advise to get a good set of headphones.  For the latter tastes vary greatly (even more than with monitors it seems).  I'm happily using sennheiser "HD 600" and "HDR 265 linear" (which sound entirely different, one is open the other closed, but they both are very useful to me).

You cannot judge something by the old values anymore, old doesn't mean wise or smart automatically anymore, expensive doesn't mean 'great' or 'the best' anymore.  And 'trusted and proven' doesn't mean a method is the best available anymore either.

Nowadays knowledge is the most valuable commodity.  For example you get a sample playback software site license for 60 bucks, which is twice+ as powerful as the 'established' software is, and the latter would cost 2500 bucks for the same setup (common pro setup configuration), and requires hardware twice as powerful (as in "double the ghz" and "twice the ram each").

You can produce chart albums with a PC with 2k worth of plugins and samples, the hardware costing 2k bucks as well, then some studio time to record with great mics, preamps and room acoustics.

Many people don't know how or even THAT any of that works (as in 'practical use' as in 'actually usable in a comfortable way').

Of course when you have a 60k technical budget to produce one song, it doesn't matter if you save a couple k here or there.  But when you realize that you actually are able to operate at a fraction of the cost other methods imply at usually more power and higher convenience (except for the initial research and setup), you realize you can simply make more money, or you can do projects that wouldn't be possible otherwise.

Now I'm not saying 'its new, it must be better than the more expensive old method' - I am saying, there are certain things where new methods simply 'own' the old methods across the board, in performance power, in quality, in flexibility, in convenience and in cost efficiency.

It really does boil down to 'try something for yourself', and maybe you do find something that would be considered revolutionary if it had a couple million bucks marketing budget and the right politically interested personnell to market and promote it in a way the 'big players' do.

Spend time on this, it's paying off.


Thanks for your post, Markus!


For heaven's sake, get the best monitors you can afford, full -range, if your budget and room can handle it.  Even though Mackie, Behringer, Genelec, etc. are popular, I would urge you to evaluate your work on better quality speakers.  The more you hear, the better your product will be.

Just my 2 cents.


I totally agree.  If Aleksey can afford the DynAudio active models then that would be great as IMO they are about the finest monitors in any price range.  As for the genelecs, Markus, you really should go to TKK in Espoo and ask the professor of the accoustics lab there for a qualified opinion. :) In the development of studio monitors and a company like genelec, old really means OLD and new usually means better, in the case of genelec, MUCH better.

Genelec them selves have a motto: " We do not make new products until we can drastically improve the performance (hence the 14 year delay of a new product).  This is what we have done now in the new 80xx model range that surpas the 10xx model range".  Their words, not mine.  We did a quite thorough A/B test using the new 8030a speaker vs the old 1029 speaker and the difference was HUGE.  Same for the 8040 vs the 1030a.  There simply is NO reason at all to buy the old models any more unless you get them second hand and at a much reduced price.  Period.

EDIT: actually, there is one reason to go for the old models.  If you're a seasoned mixing engineer and have many years of experience on the old models and do not want to re-learn the new models sound then you should go for the old models but this obviously doesn't work for Aleksey.  So, IMHO, if you go the genelec route (expensive but worth every penny) you really should get the new models.  If you can't get them where you are located then let me know and I'll ask the local music shop here to give you a bargain on them and send them there with a deal that if you're unhappy you can return them for a refund.




I would also add, consider a simple digital interface card, e.g. an RME PAD, coupled to an external converter, the best you can afford.  Mytek and Benchmark make relatively inexpensive stereo units.  The difference between converters inside the computer and outside the computer is not subtle, on a good set of monitors!  Or, consider a Lynx card.

Speaking as a "fanboy" of your work, please do not underestimate the importance of the slightest details in sound.  It is those details that matter to those who strive for the best in recorded sound, the people who you want to be your customers.

Again, just my 2 cents.


This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.