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Alexsey,

I was wondering if you know what the equivalence would be between, for example, nudging back a bass DI track 3 ms to match up with a miked bass amp track, and moving the phase a certain number of degrees using your PHA-979 plug-in?

In other words is there some way to understand how phase relates to time.

As I was experimenting with the demo, my ears told me that in relation to a miked bass amp, setting the bass DI track out of phase by around 10 degrees seemed to accomplish the same thing as moving the DI track back around 3 ms.

Hopefully my question is clear..

Thanks,

Larry


For example, if you have a 64 Hz tone, its full period lasts 15 ms.  So, 180 degree shift translates to 7.5 ms shift in time.  90 degree shift is the same as 3.75 ms shift.  Phase shifting PHA-979 performs is pretty the same as splitting the signal to infinite number of bands and then time shifting each band for the amount depending on the band's frequency.

Of course, this won't help in all cases (especially in some worst cases), but generally this allows to achieve the time coherence between the tracks much faster.


Alexsey,

So do I understand you correctly that there really is no way to precisely correlate the relationship between phase shift and time for any piece of audio material that is not a single fixed frequency as per your example above?

And therefore am I correct in assuming that the best way, if not the only way, to line up tracks as described in my initial post is by ear and what sounds best?

Thanks again,

Larry


IMO it's always about 'what sounds best'.  Phase 'problems' can even be nice.  A too ticky or sharp snare can be tamed sometimes with shifting the time of it, thus creating a phase 'problem' with the overhead mic, aka cancellation.

Larry, yes, you are right with your conclusions.  There's no magic way to line up everything automatically, but having good tools you can do it much quicker.

Alexey,

Well...OK then..looks like I'm buying another great plugin from you...!

Thanks,

Larry


Thanks, hope PHA-979 proves to be useful for you.  In fact, as I can see, not so many people understand the purpose of this kind of phase shifting and its advantages.

By the way, if you understand the purpose of the phase invert switch available on mixers and mics, you may understand the purpose of PHA-979.  PHA-979 simply offers 178 intermediate positions to this 'phase invert' switch.


Alexsey,

Actually I was considering the purchase of a hardware unit that allows you to variably shift the phase of an audio source during recording or at mix down.

I then remembered that you had released this plugin recently and thought I would see if this would accomplish the same thing at a much lower cost.

Happily it does, though I can't really use it at the recording stage, it certainly takes care of the same problems at the mixing stage.

Thanks for making such great and useful software.

Larry


I'm sorry to bother you with this question, Aleksey...but taking into account your description above...then what exactly would be the difference between using your plugin, and shifting the position of a track forwards or backwards in the time line with respect to another fixed track?

I rutinely do this by hand after multitracking, zooming very close in the waveforms of the drums session, and trying to line up the attacks off the same drum hits in different tracks.

Obviously you can't always get a perfect result (you can perfectly match two tracks with reference to one particular drum of the kit, but then some of the other sounds would start to drift in phase), but...sometimes, moving the tracks in time you can get a more focused sound.

As far as I understand, when I move a track, all its frequency components move along with it, so I'm not introducing any change in the phase of its internal frequencies.

So then again...my question is...are there any differences between both procedures?

Or more to the point...why did you not simply created a plugin that would be loaded as a insert in every track, and allowed you to move the entire track forwards or backwards. (As Sampleslide does, only that it is DX and allows just to delay the track)

Please, my apologies if I'm not getting the point here...but I would really need to know what exactly makes the difference (if any)...here.

Thanks in advance.

Rere


Rere, yes, if you take words, these processes seem like equal.  But you should try yourself both methods.  In the end, it all depends on how PHA-979 works for you.

The most obvious example of how phase shifting differs from time shifting: for example, if you want to time-align bass you will need to shift the track pretty far (several milliseconds).  For the same amount you will shift the higher frequencies.  By using phase-shifting you may shift lower frequencies in time for the same amount (several milliseconds), while higher frequencies won't be shifted in time by any considerable amount.

Again, PHA-979 is *not* a delay unit.  You may check this out yourself.

This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.

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