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Forums     Plugins     Marquis Compressor Program-Dependent Release Contour

This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.

It all started with a simple question.  No one was asking for their money back.  We even said we liked the compressor.  However, it is obvious that the feature cannot be explained.  Other than the fact the it does something to the release curve.  Oh well though.  I think if you could (or wanted to) explain this, you would have done it by now.  You are obviously brilliant enough to create it, but cannot explain it.  This is the case with many engineers.  So be it.

Dabuek: * Well if you keep the end points at max and min then a single knob could easily be made to bend the line

Aleksey Vaneev: This is not correct.  Please do not write something if you are not sure.

Aleksey Vaneev: I'm not forcing you to give me your money, especially if the product is not satisfying.  I also do make refunds withing the first month of purchase.  So, if something bothers you, send me a note and I'll refund your order.

Aleksey Vaneev: It's a talk about nothing.  I've made my comments and explanations.  Discover and explore.


Well - I'm still enjoying Marquis and I don't want a refund (of course) just because I spin the param knobs like an idiot until something sounds good.  I surely wouldn't be able to say that I have a Marquis preset with any kind of particular release contour - other than it kinda slopes to the left or it slopes to the right...I couldn't be descriptive in the same way as saying I have Marquis set up with a high threshold, fast attack and slow release.  Too early yet.

I'm a little slow perhaps but am persistant (obviously!) so it's not about giving up - just trying to get the sound, touch and feel of the controls in my head.  I don't have any other compressors with a 3-stage release contour (GCO-1 has 2 stage release and is the closest thing that comes to mind but is probably much different) so this being a new thing and somewhat proprietary and as yet underdefined in the forums and user manuals (which get tuning info from questions in the forums) I keep spinning the knobs.  I can get great sounds - I just can't really describe how I did it or repeat it yet...nothing new really in my case!

Take Care,

Kyle


I have uploaded sine wave test along with preset which can help you evaluate what PDRC is doing.

PDRC Tone.wav

PDRC Preset.fxp

There's probably no other way to make PDRC's function clearer.  Just load WAV, insert Marquis, load preset and start tweaking PDRC params.  You'll see how release becomes longer, shorter, and depending on the PDRC curvature how actual release changes a bit.


First of all, thank you for your time.  It is really kind of you to come and try to clear this up.  Also, I want to say, that your comressor rocks.  I only wanted to be able to get a full understanding of all its functions, so that I use it with some intelligence.

Very effective test for showing its operation.  This may be why we are missing each other here.  I already knew what a steeper curve and a flatter curve would do.  This test certainly validates that knowledge.

The only thing I wanted to know is the sonic differences, or any variations involved in a 10,0.1,0.1 setting, and a 0.1,0.1,10 setting.  Are there any differences at all in those two curves.  If there is any varying factor, I would like to know what that is.

In this thread you have said that there are subtle differences

Again, thank you for coming back for a final round ;)

Aleksey Vaneev: I have uploaded sine wave test along with preset which can help you evaluate what PDRC is doing.

Aleksey Vaneev: PDRC Tone.wav

Aleksey Vaneev: PDRC Preset.fxp

Aleksey Vaneev: There's probably no other way to make PDRC's function clearer.  Just load WAV, insert Marquis, load preset and start tweaking PDRC params.  You'll see how release becomes longer, shorter, and depending on the PDRC curvature how actual release changes a bit.


I kinda think that constant tweaking and listening to it's nature will bring better understanding of this feature aswell.I myself am a slow learner to many of Alekseys products parameters but i usually end up likeing them or overlooking them in practical use until i'm ready for the feature.If i never care for it it does'nt bother me because i'm content with the rest of the plugin.I have no doubt that everyone will get better understanding of the three param knobs in marquis, from these posts, from just experimenting and playing around with it, and from each other!One thing all seem to agree on and that's Marquis is a fantastic compressor plugin,I'm quite looking forward to placing it on future tracks!

Yes - Good test Aleksey!  Especially for those of us that like to see the "meter" swing before we can hear anything - hahaha.

I had to "look" at the sound in Adobe Audition to get the best visual resolution and after running a few tones of this nature I've satisfied myself that PDRC param values 10,10,0.1 and 0.1,10,10 do seem to be ever so slightly different.  The resulting waveform is visually different (in terms of 1 or 2 knat's asses) and the resulting statistics are .01 rms different.

But IMO there's no accounting for certain aspects of the psychoacoustic experience so once I get a special great sounding release contour shape I'll not really worry about exactly what point in time the compressor released another "step".  It's all in the sound of course (hehe - easy to say after all this!) and listening for the overall release and how much I want it to be "driven" by the program material is the thing to do I guess.

I've had great tasting cooking where the chef just threw in a pinch of this and a jugger of that - so it is with PDRC I'm learning.  Season to taste!  Marquis is a very tasty compressor...now to make some audio art.


Hello again.

************

I loaded the fxp provided by Aleksey into the Marquis Compressor, and the sound file (the sine wave) into Cubase.

Without touching anything else, I carefully turned the three different knobs. (Also it should be said that I

never once looked at the graph.  There has been some confusion in this thread about it's visual accuracy.)

Below: 0 = knob turned to 0,1.  1 = knob turned to 10. param 1 will be the first digit, param 2 the second ..

For example "101" would mean param 1 = 10, param 2 = 0,1, and param 3 = 10.  Clean and simple.

My findings are (all approximated using cubase length measurements and maximum resolution):

Settings-Release onset-Release contour

000-0.01.00.026-0.00.03.105

001-0.00.02.103-0.00.03.038

010-0.00.02.102-0.00.03.036

011-0.00.01.038-0.00.02.090

100-0.00.02.102-0.00.03.034

101-0.00.01.032-0.00.02.089

110-0.00.01.036-0.00.02.091

111-0.00.00.004-0.00.00.098

***

This test is of course not conclusive, for example I've not been able to adequately measure possible variations within

the release contours.  Nonetheless, nothing suggests such variations.  Now for the sake of my typing, I'll write "RO"

for release onset, and "RC" for release contour.

Explanations and a thought:

1.  001, 010 and 100 have the same RO.  They also have the same RC.

2.  011, 101 and 110 have the same RO.  They also have the same RC.

3.  000 has by far the longest RO, and slightly longer RC than the aforementioned combinations.

4.  111 has the shortest RO, and also a steep/short RC.

5.  The smaller (+/-0.00.00.10 or something) variations in the above numbers is most probably a result of my sloppy

measuring and Cubase's wave-drawing function, and maybe some unknown factor.

With these findings, and the unevitable conclusions thereof, I believe I can safely say:

"I rest my case."


Thanks for that Dabuek - I'll understand it someday - for now it turns out I'm even stupider than I first suspected.  Well - at least it's Veterans Day!!!

Further.  I did do a phase inversion test with settings of 10,.1,.1 and .1,.1,10 and find that the release is indeed different.  In the middle of the release there is more of a curvature in the release.  They divert in the middle of the curve for a moment, and then meet up again.  It is sooooo very slight, that it really would not make too much of a difference in the end.  I hear the faintest swell of the 1KHz signal in the middle when I set 10,.1,.1 and .1,.1,10.  And pretty much non existant with .1,10,.1 and .1,.1,10 set.

Moreover, I set them like this as well and heard a more profound, (yet very small) difference.  10,10,.1 and .1,10,10.

My conclusion...I feel very sorry for anyone who come here trying to figure this out.  I have spent well over 3 hours of asking and typing this question in a hunderd ways...and I am just not going to get a definition which describes the difference between the parameter controls. I giggle with insanity when I think about what a straight question that is, and the answers I have been getting. I know there are probably people here that are saying, why the hell do you care so much?  I guess, all this time, I just thought I was not making my question clear.  But you know what, I have.  Now I have to come to the conclusion that Aleksey simply cannot articulate the answer.  I mean, at this point I would be satisfied with, "You know, I just cannot explain it, I do not know English good enough" or "With all due respect, I do not know myself.  I trusted some mathematical information I used for the equation and I simply trust that the variations on which I based the different calculations are going to produce enough unique results to make this control interesting." I am completely floored.  I have never taken part in such a discussion that took more than 2 or 3 attempts to ask the question in order to get an answer. (What page are we on anyway?...ROFL).  The people in white coats need to come take me away, because I am f**kin looney.  But there is salvation...I no longer care.  I really don't.  In the end, this will not be the deciding difference between a good mix and a bad one.  I will tweak the controls for overall curve, and that is that.  And I will never see the parameters controls as being different from one another...WHY?  Because they are not defined.

I am putting this control to rest as Kylen has as pretty much a touch and feel control.  If I am ever asked, what hell I did with the compressor to get the sound I got, and I have tweaked the PDRC in any way.  I will simply say, I do not know...nor will I ever.  Other than the fact that I am adjusting the curvature of the release time in some way.  Why did I turn Undefined Param 1 in stead of Undefined Param 2?  Because I felt like it damnit.  LOL.  It just seemed to be the right thing to do at the time.  I was gonna turn knob number three, but it just didn't seem like the tool to use.

Reminds me of another conversation I heard on this level:

..."Take a closer look, this amp goes to eleven"

"Well, why not just make ten louder?"

"Well....this one goes to eleven."

-Spinal Tap

This is the only thing I know for sure:

Param 1 = Adjusts the slope of the release time in some way different from Param 2 and 3.

Param 2 = Adjusts the slope of the release time in some way different from Param 1 and 3.

Param 3 = Adjusts the slope of the release time in some way different from Param 1 and 2.

kylen: Yes - Good test Aleksey!  Especially for those of us that like to see the ''meter'' swing before we can hear anything - hahaha.

kylen: I had to ''look'' at the sound in Adobe Audition to get the best visual resolution and after running a few tones of this nature I've satisfied myself that PDRC param values 10,10,0.1 and 0.1,10,10 do seem to be ever so slightly different.  The resulting waveform is visually different (in terms of 1 or 2 knat's asses) and the resulting statistics are .01 rms different.

kylen: But IMO there's no accounting for certain aspects of the psychoacoustic experience so once I get a special great sounding release contour shape I'll not really worry about exactly what point in time the compressor released another ''step''.  It's all in the sound of course (hehe - easy to say after all this!) and listening for the overall release and how much I want it to be ''driven'' by the program material is the thing to do I guess.

kylen: I've had great tasting cooking where the chef just threw in a pinch of this and a jugger of that - so it is with PDRC I'm learning.  Season to taste!  Marquis is a very tasty compressor...now to make some audio art.


You guys got it pretty well wrapped up here.  The only thing I'd like to add is that the difference between a X, Z, Y setting versus Z,Y,X setting also seems to be very much dependant on the material that you feed marquis with.  It seems easiest to hear during drumbus compression.  Just like elvenking said, the release sounds like it suddenly releases faster or slower in the middle of the main release phase, depending on the setting.  So, a setting of 10,0.1,10 makes the drums pump a bit weirdly as the first part of the release is quite fast, and then suddenly in the middle of the release it slows down a lot ("pumps") and then again suddenly continues on it's fast release.  I have no idea how the internal magic of this thing works but this is what I hear.

Cheers!

bManic

This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.