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This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.

Robert, could you test your idea first?  For example, apply some not so steep -2dB lowshelf filter at 200 or 300 Hz.  I've tried this and it seemingly gives lesser distortion, but at the cost of slightly shifted frequency balance.  But I guess it is pretty acceptable for heavy metal music.

So, if that works for you too, I'll think how I can incorporate this filter into the Elephant.


Yes, I have alreayd tried that.  That's how I came up with the idea in the first place.  I had tried it with an iir eq, hamming, 262144 fft size. -3db low shelf at 285hz.  I tried alot of different positionings and that gave the best results with the least "change".

I was thinking perhaps incorporating a steep lowpass filter at 23-28hz, which would remove some offset, and reduce uneccassary frequencies that may cause troubles when limiting.  That would help immensly as well.

Due to the nature of limiting, the perceived curve of the audio is changed, enhancing the freuqnecies below the release and those within .3-2ms of the attack, so it may perhaps actually make the limiter "more transparent" in that it will retain a more aurally natural sound and not just a technically transparent sound.

A dc offset filter would probabaly be the "proper" labeling for the lowpass i described above

-Robert


Just about to head to bed and I had a thought...

Make the shelf inversely proportionate to the amount of gain reduction being done.  For unlinked stereo, an rms or average value used to determine the value.

That whould make the effect negligible until necassary and more pronounced when more necassary.

-Robert


Aleksey,

IMHO, Elephant should not do any EQing, especially not dynamically.

There are EQs and Multiband Compressors, to do that job.

I prefer to have control about these things !

So, if You add such a feature, PLEASE make it switchable !!

Robert,

I'm in the same situation.  Companys and clients, demanding highest levels.

BUT,

I always try my best, to teach them about the drawbacks and quite often

they understand and let me reduce the level by 2 or 3 db :)

About Bass and Metal :

As we all know high bass level AND highest overall level, are a physical contradiction !

Just finished a Metal production, where the client showed up with a CD for comparison.

He wanted to have the same level.

I made them aware, of the exaggerated mids and reduced bass, on that CD.

Finally they decided to keep their fat sound, for a bit less level :)

( luckily, I do a lot of Fusion / JazzRock, where I only need some peak limiting.

Sound quality is most important here, and Elephant is the best, in this regard !!! )

bye, Jan


Wish it was that easy :-\ I(wendy actually) normally can educate them down a bit, but If you've ever worked with labels, a new trend is demanding a specific average rms for the entire cd without hearing it.  But normally with individual's it is not a problem.Even if we could do it 99% of the time, the 1% who cant get it through is probabaly gonna pop up right at the perfectly wrong time.

For me, it's not a question of keeping it from happening, but being able to cope easily when it does occur.  But we'll still try :)

-Robert


robert, have you received my message on your e-mail?  I've tried to send you the current experimental version which includes 'RShape' release shape control which in my opinion decreases distortion with lower frequencies to the level of at least L2.  If anyone want to try it out too, please, write to info@voxengo.com.

No email yet, I will let know soon as I get it!

-Robert


OK, I've put that version here: http://www.voxengo.com/temp/VoxengoElephant1.dll

I'm sorry because it was done in a 'fast and dirty' style.  It is experimental since I don't know whether it will be useful or not.  This is a regular (not HQ) version.

This new control is called 'RShape' (release shape).  This must be tuned last after all controls (including ingain) were tuned.  Useful RShape value is always different for current ingain/shape/speed values.  Personally I was able to get some additional clarity with this control.


It does help...  At first it took me a while to hear it, but I stuck it on just kick + bass guitar and it was pretty obvious.  Got almost up to -4 average rms without no strange artifacts..  It seemed like it was cutting out the 2K region a bit, the attack of the bass, and kick both were toned down slightly with the knob turned up all the way..

I notice alot les "phasey" sound on the low end with the knob turned all the way up, it's very subtle...  I had to listen a few times to make sure I wasnt crazy.

I did a sanity check, inverting mixdowns with same settings except the new control at the opposite extreme's and The effect qas quite noticable, the wave forms even looked quite different. the one with the rshape being slightly "thinner", but having the same rms, and sounding (to my ears, without looking) the same level.

all in all, The initial limited attack of the low end was much clearer with the rshape and I was able to get louder than the l2 while remaining MUCH clearer (much, much clearer).  In fact, at the highest level i was able to push elephant without any noticable problems, if i put the l2 at that point, it would distort badly.

great work :)

-R :) bert


I use the dfx rms buddy to measure btw.

Perhaps if the Elephant had a place where it displayed the overall average or rms or peak values for the audio coming out of it, that would be nice, not necassary but it's just a suggestion

-Robert

This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.