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Ive noticed that elephant seems to distort at higher usage levels where other limiters do not...  Though it sounds MUCH better than "competting" limiters (ala l2, which Ive used for a long time).  It seems to get weak when extreme limiting is necassary.

Perhaps I am missing something important in the use of the plugin?  It seems to work very well and sound good, and Ive been using it (purchased) for a while now i a proffesional environment, but i always find myself going over it a few times with brickwall limiters to gain more ... gain.

-Robert


hello. a little critic here.  Robert is right, Elephant produces very much distortion when limiting compared to a "normal" limiter. especially on sinewaves you see what it is doing. for me Elephant looks like a Waveshaper (and thats no new idea using that instead a limiter).  But the "bad" sideeffect of the more transparent sound is the distortion.  In fact it clips the sound to achive that higher output, whats typical for a Waveshaper. but i didnt till now find the elephant good compared to L2, the concept is simply another and L2 doesnt introduce distortion (what btw in another thread here was mentioned as a exciter).  I will still continue using L2 as i find it to be much less sound altering as the Elephant is, even if you cant get such a high level as with Elephant, its the right choice for my final sound (at least for me). would like to hear comments on this from aleksey. aint i right that elephant is a little bit extended Waveshaper?

Greets.


Guys, please, compare Elephant and L2 at the same RMS levels.  L2 simply does not allow you to overamplify while Elephant tries to give you the maximum.  By doing this seemingly 'clear' limiting, L2 actually introduces far worse artifacts like overall gain change and thus sound becomes muddier with it.  With Elephant your hands are literally set free and it is your responsibility not to allow it to distort.  Elephant is NOT a waveshaper.  I have to find limiter that gives comparably clear sound with the same end RMS.  I have not found such competing limiter so far, so, please, review Elephant for yourself again.

I have compared the L2 to the Elephant on a number of mixes and have heard no such distortion.  The Elephant to my ears remains much more open, transparent and three dimentional when both plugins are set up to achieve the same crest factor.

I actually don't care, if a sinewave gets distorted or not, if my ears tell me it sounds good.

I've compared L2 and Elephant at quite moderate settings, with max gain reduction, of 5db.

Elephant sounds closer to the original signal !

It may be possible, to get higher end levels with the L2, cause it's 'auto' algo is optimized for that.

BUT PLEASE, don't only measure the loudness !!

Try to hear, what is done to Your music !!

I may be called old school ( well I am :) ), but this 'loudness hype' is driving me crazy, some times !

Loudness is NOT a quality aspect !!

Less limitted mixes will mostly sound better, if listened to, at the same level.

( You know there are these 'Volume' knobs on your amp ... )

peace, Jan


I understand the concept, and I did purchase the plugin because It is far better sounding than the L1 and L2 that I both own.  My wife is a mastering engineer (I generally work with recording and mixing) and we work with 99.9% music that is contracted by record labels that demand specific volumes for their recordings.  Elephant, while tremendously superior in terms of sound quality, seems to be slightly short in terms of loudness ability.  There's a big difference between "Caring" about how the audio sounds, and being paid at the end of the day, else master limiting would be something rarely, or gently used by all engineers, home and pro.

Anyways, It is slowly becoming the main digital limiter because it is so incredibly clear, but passes by outboard equipment is proven to still be necassary.  Not always, but often when it is required by the powers that be.

Aleksey, being a former dsp programmer myself, I must say you are extremely talented and a great asset to the digital audio community.  I will continue to use your plugins in our studios and recommend them to all my peers and on the forums i participate in.  The work you do is truly revolutionary and quite genius.  Thank You!

-Robert


Thank you for your support, Robert!  BTW, you can check the latest v1.1b beta of the Elephant since it implements channel linking.

The linked/unlinked option solves the problem about 50% of the time.  It still distorts on lowend-heavy material (metal) before other limiters do.

Ive been doing all my demoing so far with elephantHQ....

It's on par with l2's loudness now, with the afformentioned exception of very bass heavy material.  Perhaps allowing an optional low-shelf curve or compression, though it's easy to do this outside of the limiter, it would make the limiter more functional in it's entire purpose

-Robert


Have you tried different Shape/Speed settings for bass heavy material?

Yes I have, It occasionaly becomes better, but at the expense of an exagerated midrange (with shape).  The attack settings seem to change the higher transients more than the lower ones.

There are some settings that do help, but in comparison it is still a bit less than expected.

In conjunction with sonic finalizer, the "proper" levels can be acheived, but I felt it was the intention of elephant to be a "complete" limiting solution, which for this algorithm seems to need a low shelf or something similiar, the shape knob comes close, but no cigar

-Robert

This topic was created before release of the latest product version, and it may contain details irrelevant to this version.  Replying is disabled for this topic.

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